Re: [OVC-discuss] Daily Kos vote

From: Edward Cherlin <>
Date: Thu Oct 22 2009 - 00:25:14 CDT

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 16:52, Bev Harris <> wrote:
> Brent Turner is effective in this video, as is Alan Dechert. The votes are not,
> however, being "counted in public". The public is watching the votes scanned by
> an off the shelf bar code scanner, with a representation on a screen said to be
> what the bar code scanner is capturing.

This is a demo of the pilot system, not the finished system. We had
someone read out the votes from the paper, so it wasn't just the count
on the screen. We can as easily put an image of the paper on a screen.
Observers will be able to look directly at the paper. We welcome your
assistance in making this as transparent as possible and as necessary.

> It's an exciting concept, and much more promising than the proprietary crap, and
> in the interim a cheaper and more transparent system. My concern: If public
> hand counts done properly, as they are in New Hampshire, Ireland, Germany, was
> to become a reality in the USA,

URLs, please, for methods and sample ballots.

Here is the official Secretary of State URL for past California
ballots and ballot pamphlets.

> would the Open Voting Consortium be fighting
> against it?

Not particularly. Our concerns about security of paper ballots will be
public, but we will consider the systems you recommend for dealing
with those problems. Your suggestions and ours need to go through the
same security audit.

We do not feel that purely manual counting of large, California-style,
multi-contest, multi-issue ballots using ranked preference voting will
ever be practical, but we are happy to discuss where those limits
might be in practice.

> Brent Turner captures a persuasive argument for the OVC system. A worry for many
> will be that to justify all the work and commitment put in, the OVC people
> would end up fighting AGAINST hand counted paper ballots. That fight is in a
> different arena, more legal than technical.

If our security concerns are met, we have no objection. We don't yet
know how big an "if" that is.

We would like to assure you that our support or opposition on any
voting issue will be based on available facts, not on predetermined
opinions. Of course, it is not enough to say so. You need to see us do

> Bev Harris
> Founder - Black Box Voting
> * * * * *
> Government is the servant of the people, and not the master of them. The
> people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right
> to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to
> know. We insist on remaining informed so that we may retain control over the
> instruments of government we have created.

Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
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Received on Mon Nov 30 23:17:08 2009

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