Re: Daily Kos vote

From: Bev Harris <bev_at_blackboxvoting_dot_org>
Date: Wed Oct 21 2009 - 18:36:51 CDT

> Thanks. Can you give us a URL for more details? Is this done at the
> polling place? How are totals recorded and transferred?

It's done at the polling place in public, videotaping allowed. Totals are
written onto a report form, signed, and sent by courier to sec state. There are
reports of occasional cheating by writing the wrong number on the paper. This
can be solved with better public education about using cell phones to photo or
video that page, or better, to broadcast video of it using cell phones, or
webcast it. For more see http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com

> > By the way, ballot box stuffing is a horrific risk with mail-in voting;
>
> Agreed, although I have much more often seen mail-in ballots rejected
> improperly.

Sigh. That's because you cannot see ballot substitution or counterfeiting. And
groan, on the bit below. Tech guys need to do a whole lot better at spotting
the sleight of hand. Read closely: The sig comparison on returned absentee
votes is NOT done using the real sig and it doesn't matter if it matches or
not, the power is hidden in the database of "yes" and "no" and its admin.

> I have proposed a possibility based on our electronic ballot markers
> whereby voters could go to a standard set of locations (as defined by
> DoD for military voters; perhaps post offices for others domestically,
> and embassies and consulates abroad). They would have to present ID
> and give a physical signature at that location. Then they could use
> the machine to print a ballot, there or at a designated site in their
> home district, which would not bear any personal identification. We
> could use signed absentee ballot envelopes as now. This would require
> that all election districts submit their ballots in some protected
> electronic format for remote use.
>
> This proposal has not been given the scrutiny required for adding to
> the OVC system. We would have to do a complete security audit on this
> proposal, just as on the rest of our system, to see where alterations
> or additional ballots might be slipped in, and how to prevent them.
> You are welcome to propose bugs for us to fix.
>
> > note the
> > sleight-of-hand we're seeing, "we match the signatures; any voters with
> > non-matching sigs are notified." Hello? The stuffing is with the MATCHING
> sigs,
> > not the non-matches; Occasional and irregular voters easily have votes
> > counterfeited and voted in their name, and this is already documented in
> New
> > Jersey.
>
> Ah, I remember the shenanigans with the old mechanical lever voting
> machines I voted on in New Jersey.
>
> > The sigs being compared, by the way, aren't physical sigs, they are
> > database images, easily imported and exported, never even authenticated as
> the
> > real sig, and the "match" is a dog and phony show much like L&A tests. (It
> > doesn't matter if a real person sits at a computer screen and checks yes
> and
> > no; the real issue is access and alterations to the yes/no database.)
>
> Very shoddy programming and procedures. We know how to prevent
> alterations in recorded data with digital signatures that cannot be
> repudiated, forged, or bypassed. Videotaping the matching session is
> also useful for securing the results.
>
> > "Other known hazards" are relatively easily dealt with, but since you don't
> > specify what you are imagining, it's hard to to refute whatever is in your
> > mind.
>
> The usual hazards are ballots added (stuffing), removed, or replaced.
> Votes could be added to undervoted ballots. Ballots could be
> intentionally spoiled after the voter casts them.
>
> The OVC system has measures in place to prevent each of these
> succeeding. In some cases, errors can be corrected, and so cannot
> change the totals or the outcome. In some cases, particularly when
> ballots are removed, the error can be detected but not corrected. Such
> errors should automatically trigger an audit or even a court hearing
> (especially if the outcome is endangered).
>
> > Bev Harris
> > Founder - Black Box Voting
> > http://www.blackboxvoting.org
> >
> > * * * * *
> >
> > Government is the servant of the people, and not the master of them. The
> > people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the
> right
> > to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them
> to
> > know. We insist on remaining informed so that we may retain control over
> the
> > instruments of government we have created.
>
> --
> Edward Mokurai
>
(˜›/धरमम‡˜शबद—रœ/دھر……Œگھشبدگر
> ج) Cherlin
> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
> http://www.earthtreasury.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> OVC-discuss mailing list
> OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net
> http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to release the
> content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of copyrighted
> material quoted according to fair use, including publicly archiving at
> http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/

Bev Harris
Founder - Black Box Voting
http://www.blackboxvoting.org

* * * * *

Government is the servant of the people, and not the master of them. The
people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right
to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to
know. We insist on remaining informed so that we may retain control over the
instruments of government we have created.

Black Box Voting is a nonpartisan, nonprofit 501c(3) elections watchdog group
funded entirely by citizen donations.
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/donate.html
Black Box Voting
330 SW 43rd St Suite K
PMB 547
Renton WA 98057

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

_______________________________________________
OVC-discuss mailing list
OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net
http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to release the content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of copyrighted material quoted according to fair use, including publicly archiving at http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
=================================
= The content of this message, with the exception of any external
= quotations under fair use, are released to the Public Domain
=================================
Received on Mon Nov 30 23:17:06 2009

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Mon Nov 30 2009 - 23:17:17 CST