RE: Should candidates challenge elections?

From: <clintcurtis_at_clintcurtis_dot_com>
Date: Thu May 19 2005 - 15:35:17 CDT

What is missing is the trends. That is what several people haved used as
the basis that the elections were not correctly counted. In Ohio there
were several instances of the lesser Democratic candidates receiving
votes porportionate to what was expected while Kerry received far
fewer. At the Nashville Conference, Cliff Arenbeck spoke about a
Democrat running for county judge that received votes that showed up in
no other democratic race. In essence the machines would have us believe
that a large numbers of voters stood in line to vote for a county judge
but voted in no other race, including the Presidential race. Torn up
ballots would not allow the public to verify if in fact that was the
case.

I don't think you can replace non-transparent elections with
almost-transparent elections.

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] Should candidates challenge elections?
> From: David Mertz <voting-project@gnosis.cx>
> Date: Thu, May 19, 2005 2:25 pm
> To: Open Voting Consortium discussion list
> <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
>
> Ok, let me do my Ed Kennedy/Socrates impression here:
>
> On May 19, 2005, at 2:00 PM, clintcurtis@clintcurtis.com wrote:
> > The lock may not stop working. But the ability to reproduce results of
> > the election is lost to the public. I may be wrong, but the second
> > receipt that is open to the public is one of the most important parts
> > of open voting.
>
> I cannot understand what transparency is lost by a perforation on a
> paper ballot. Explain it to me slowly so I can figure it out.
>
> Let's say a paper ballot looks like the below (in my crude ASCII art
> version):
>
> +-----------------+-----------------+
> | John Doe | Sally Smith |
> | President | Mayor |
> +-----------------+-----------------+
> | Shin Wu | Maria Gomez |
> | Senator | Representative |
> +-----------------+-----------------+
>
> A voter gets this ballot, looks at it, walks to the ballot box, and
> drops it in. Later on, under watchful eyes of neutral observers, some
> poll workers tear along the perforations (roughly indicated by the
> dash-y things in my picture). Each vote slip is saved as a permanent
> record, is later available to the public, and so on.
>
> What did we lose, exactly, by not letting elected mayor Mallory Jones
> not find out that the folks with the "Gomez: Liberatarian for
> Representative" sign on their lawn voted Smith for Mayor?
>
> Now the only remotely sensible explanation I can figure out here is
> that there is a ballot-id at the top of the ballot, and that gets torn
> off. And then that ballot-id is not correlative with the electronic
> ballot image (EBI) anymore. I'm not exactly gung ho about ballot-ids,
> regardless of the perforation thing. But there is a minor point there.
> E.g. the ballot actually was:
>
> +-----------------+-----------------+
> | Ballot-Id: 12345 |
> +-----------------+-----------------+
> | John Doe | Sally Smith |
> | President | Mayor |
> +-----------------+-----------------+
> | Shin Wu | Maria Gomez |
> | Senator | Representative |
> +-----------------+-----------------+
>
> Assuming you are pro-ballot-id, the solution to this "problem" is
> trivial. Don't use one master random ballot-id, but several random
> contest-ids. E.g.:
>
> +-----------------+-----------------+
> | Cid: 489872309 | Cid: 20487149 |
> | John Doe | Sally Smith |
> | President | Mayor |
> +-----------------+-----------------+
> | Cid: 45-908453 | Cid: 098452-9 |
> | Shin Wu | Maria Gomez |
> | Senator | Representative |
> +-----------------+-----------------+
>
> If you like this, just store separate EBIs for each contest, rather
> than for whole ballots.
>
> So what am I completely missing here?
>
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Received on Tue May 31 23:17:43 2005

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