Re: Brand new concept in audit trails

From: Jim March <jmarch_at_prodigy_dot_net>
Date: Thu May 05 2005 - 03:13:44 CDT

Ron Crane wrote:

<majorsnippage>

>> Well as I said, in California and *most* states there is no legal
>> change required and the full ballot image data (or the ballots
>> themselves are legally available for viewing.
>
>
> They're legally available for viewing when? Immediately? 5 days after
> the election? Before certification of the election?

They certainly SHOULD be available for view pretty damn quick.
Certainly well within the limit to file a challenge...six weeks I
think? Somewhere around there.

If the data is going to be public at all, there's no benefit to delaying.

<anothermajorsnippage>

>> Yes but only with the cooperation of volunteer pollworkers. You
>> might be able to corrupt a precinct or two but it won't be widespread.
>
>
> Then I don't see what the carbon process is protecting against. If
> it's hard to stuff the box, it's harder to hack the system -- except
> at the very end of the process: posting the totals. But wouldn't the
> volunteers have something to say if the totals they see are posted
> incorrectly at the end?

The carbon process is a backstop against the OVC "software based" checks
and balances getting subverted.

Arright. The "software checks" involve the vote terminal software's
ability to write a valid electronic record of the vote to the CD and
create/write a valid hash at the same time.

Now let's say the OVC system is VERY popular and found all over.
Somebody (we'll call 'em "Mr. Evil") burns a set of motherboards with
vote-shave code in firmware.

With the carbon paper, Mr. Evil has a problem. Trying to stuff the
paper to the same degree the electronic record was stuffed and in the
same fashion becomes damned difficult AND with more eyes on the paper,
the odds of catching a shave goes up.

Mr. Evil gets a migrane.

That's just an example of the "real" benefits.

The "PR and public perception" benefit (to a standard even
hyper-skeptics like Bev can deal with) can't be discarded either despite
it being a little less "nuts and bolts real".

<sniiiiiiiiip>

>>> Election-related violence is a *great* reason to *preserve* as much
>>> privacy as we can, especially for voters aligned with unpopular
>>> parties or candidates. And if "excessive security" is "basically
>>> impossible", why not film voters' every move?
>>
>>
>> OK, you caught me in some hyperbole :).
>
>
> But what of the argument about the need to preserve privacy because of
> the election violence you cited? I'm serious here.
>
> -R

Ah, but what TYPE of violence is occuring and why?

The violence isn't directed against voters. Not yet anyhow, except for
maybe some in-family squabbles (husband votes GOP, wife votes Dem,
argument breaks out but that goes on in *every* Democracy <grin>).

The violence is directed at campaigns. The WA state Bush/GOP
headquarters got broken into and all the computers stolen that had
campaign tactical data on 'em.

THAT sort of thing is driven by a perception that "the other side is
cheating, see also www.blackboxvoting.org and elsewhere, so the rules
are out the window".

We are one HELL of a long way off from Greens or Libertarians getting
beat up.

The violence is being driven by widespread perceptions of vote fraud.

I'll leave you with the lyrics of a protest song by "Bright Eyes", the
musical guest on Leno last night. Note the 3rd paragraph, line 5:

-----------------
*"When The President Talks To God"*

When the president talks to God
Are the conversations brief or long?
Does he ask to rape our women’s' rights
And send poor farm kids off to die?
Does God suggest an oil hike
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
Are the consonants all hard or soft?
Is he resolute all down the line?
Is every issue black or white?
Does what God say ever change his mind
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
Does he fake that drawl or merely nod?
Agree which convicts should be killed?
Where prisons should be built and filled?
Which voter fraud must be concealed
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
I wonder which one plays the better cop
We should find some jobs. the ghetto's broke
No, they're lazy, George, I say we don't
Just give 'em more liquor stores and dirty coke
That's what God recommends

When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God

When the president talks to God
Does he ever think that maybe he's not?
That that voice is just inside his head
When he kneels next to the presidential bed
Does he ever smell his own bullshit
When the president talks to God?

I doubt it

I doubt it

Source:
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/brighteyes/whenthepresidenttalkstogod.html
-----------------

Jim again. Let me repeat: this was on LENO.

We have to repair this perception of widespread fraud.

Jim
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Received on Tue May 31 23:17:20 2005

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