Re: OVC DVD

From: Edmund R. Kennedy <ekennedyx_at_yahoo_dot_com>
Date: Tue May 03 2005 - 10:22:58 CDT

Hello Lara:

I'd like it before 5/10/2005. Physically sending it
to me is not truely necessary. If it is not big, you
could attach the file to an email or else I can
download it.

Thanks, Ed Kennedy
--- Lara Shaffer <lara@openvotingconsortium.org>
wrote:

> Edmund (and everyone),
> Sorry about the movie links. The link I have
> for Invisible Ballots
> seems to work for me. Try it again. There's not
> much I can do about the
> other sites. That's the way the people who own
> those sites have them right
> now.
> EVERYONE: There IS a very good 5 minute DVD of
> the ABC report on the
> April 1st demo. I have three original copies of it
> (made by Bob Kibrick)
> and one copied version. I can send you one, Ed, and
> make more copies for
> other people that need them. (Ed, when do you need
> it by?). Let me know.
>
> Lara Shaffer :)
>
> Director of Development
>
> Open Voting Consortium
>
> 831-419-0758
>
> lara@openvoting.org
>
>
>
> www.OpenVoting.org
>
>
>
> The Open Voting Consortium (OVC) is a non-profit
> organization dedicated to
> the development, maintenance, and delivery of open
> voting systems for use in
> public elections.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ovc-discuss-request@listman.sonic.net>
> To: <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 10:56 PM
> Subject: OVC-discuss Digest, Vol 7, Issue 23
>
>
> > Send OVC-discuss mailing list submissions to
> > ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web, visit
> >
> http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> > ovc-discuss-request@listman.sonic.net
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > ovc-discuss-owner@listman.sonic.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of OVC-discuss digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Data security: "external" versus
> "internal" (Fred McLain)
> > 2. Re: extract text from PDF, was Re:
> [OVC-discuss] Shamos
> > Rebuttal, Draft 1 (Fred McLain)
> > 3. Re: Data security: "external" versus
> "internal" (Jim March)
> > 4. Re: OVCML Tek: A Good Solution to XML Tek
> Insecurity
> > (Cameron L. Spitzer)
> > 5. suggestion to fix things... (Lara Shaffer)
> > 6. Re: OVCML Tek: A Good Solution to XML Tek
> Insecurity (Ron Crane)
> > 7. Re: OVCML Tek: A Good Solution to XML Tek
> Insecurity
> > (Roy M. Silvernail)
> > 8. Current state of voter ID issues per
> Charlotte Observer
> > (Edmund R. Kennedy)
> > 9. Re: suggestion to fix things... (Arthur
> Keller)
> > 10. The web site and the movie links (Ed
> Kennedy)
> >
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 16:09:51 -0700
> > From: Fred McLain <mclain@zipcon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] Data security:
> "external" versus "internal"
> > To: Open Voting Consortium discussion list
> > <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Message-ID:
>
<1115075392.21490.28.camel@fmclain-suse92.Softek.Loc>
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> > I think what has been missing from this discussion
> is why we're using a
> > file based format at all. For those that haven't
> been around as long as
> > some of us, the idea is to *not* use a database on
> the voting machines.
> > There simply isn't enough data there to warrent
> the additional
> > complexity. This several types of file formats
> were considered,
> > including flat file, CSV and XML.
> >
> > On Mon, 2005-05-02 at 15:46 -0700, Jim March
> wrote:
> > > As I understand this, Jamboi wants to brew up a
> data file type that is
> > > both "open data" (publicly readable) and
> internally secure with little
> > > or no external checking...sorta what Diebold
> claimed they had with
> > > MS-Access data (an admittedly stupid example of
> course...).
> > >
> > > The alternative is a fundamentally UNsecure data
> format that's easy to
> > > read, externally controlled and hashed...what
> Jamboi calls a "bandaid"
> > > on top of the unsecure data.
> > >
> > > I think in this case the "bandaid" is warranted.
> > >
> > > 1) If you add hardcore security to the
> complexity of the distributable
> > > data file, you make it harder to read and
> readable in fewer
> > > applications. Plain text (be it XML or hell,
> Comma Separated Values for
> > > that matter) can be digested in numerous apps
> across multiple
> > > platforms. If I understand Jamboi's argument
> correctly, unless somebody
> > > wrote their own data reader app the data would
> be readable on Linux
> > > boxes using our readers...unless we wrote our
> own cross-platform
> readers...?
> > >
> > > 2) What if our version 1.0 is screwed up? If
> our data files are dead
> > > standard, we could switch out the "bandaid" used
> to do the
> > > hashes/checksums/etc. as needed or as technology
> advances. It's
> modular.
> > >
> > > 3) It's also a HELL of a lot less work! Tools
> to deal with standard
> > > data formats already exist, some under GPL that
> we can rapidly
> > > incorporate. Ditto various hash apps. "Jam"
> 'em together, a few late
> > > nights of pizza and testing, stick a fork in it.
> Hell, we can (and
> > > should!) test multiple hash
> processing/handshaking systems at the same
> > > time, pick one final but note which others don't
> suck too bad so if our
> > > top choice turns out to stink in some complex
> fashion we didn't catch,
> > > oh well, "plan B" time.
> > >
> > > What Jamboi calls "bandaids" I call "modular"
> and "rapid development"
> :).
> > >
> > > And genuinely "open data".
> > >
> > > Jim
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OVC discuss mailing lists
> > > Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
> arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
> > >
> > --
> > Fred McLain <mclain@zipcon.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 16:10:21 -0700
> > From: Fred McLain <mclain@zipcon.net>
> > Subject: Re: extract text from PDF, was Re:
> [OVC-discuss] Shamos
> > Rebuttal, Draft 1
> > To: Open Voting Consortium discussion list
> > <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Message-ID:
>
<1115075421.21490.30.camel@fmclain-suse92.Softek.Loc>
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> >
> > Open Office can also edit .pdf files.
> >
> > On Mon, 2005-05-02 at 16:00 -0700, Ed Kennedy
> wrote:
> > > Hello All:
> > >
> > > How about we go with if you want to distribute
> something to the list in
> pdf
> > > also attach a copy in some common editable form.
> A little side note to
> > > Cameron, Open Office is able to read and write
> doc and rtf formats.
> > >
> > --
> > Fred McLain <mclain@zipcon.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 16:14:25 -0700
> > From: Jim March <jmarch@prodigy.net>
> > Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] Data security:
> "external" versus "internal"
> > To: Open Voting Consortium discussion list
> > <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Message-ID: <4276B451.2080004@prodigy.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> >
> > Fred McLain wrote:
> >
> > >I think what has been missing from this
> discussion is why we're using a
> > >file based format at all. For those that haven't
> been around as long as
> > >some of us, the idea is to *not* use a database
> on the voting machines.
> > >There simply isn't enough data there to warrent
> the additional
> > >complexity. This several types of file formats
> were considered,
> > >including flat file, CSV and XML.
> > >
> >
> > Sure, that's understandable. The data would be
> tabulated
> > elsewhere...multiple "elsewheres", one at the
> county election HQ with
> > the OVC tabulator, but anybody with a standard PC
> able to read
> > CSV/XML/whatever could do their own tabulation.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 16:14:58 -0700
> > From: "Cameron L. Spitzer" <cls@truffula.sj.ca.us>
> > Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] OVCML Tek: A Good
> Solution to XML Tek
> > Insecurity
> > To: ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net
> > Message-ID: <E1DSk7u-0001qp-00@truffula>
> >
> >
> > It's been a long time since I had a copy of
> _Applied Cryptography_
> > on my desk, but it seems to me Lesson One is the
> only thing in a
> > cryptosystem that it makes sense to hide or make
> non-interoperable
> > or different is the password. Maybe it's
> counterintuitive, but
> > using a lesser known format doesn't protect you
> from the most
> > serious threats *at all.* If anything, it exposes
> you more
> > because you're not leveraging the testing that
> went into
> > the tools used for the standard formats. That's
> pretty
> > much the problem with proprietary encryption.
> Unusual machine
> > is just a half step towards secret machine, and
> those steps
> > aren't in the direction of improved security or
> trustworthiness.
> >
> > I'm not worried about high school skript kiddies
> hijacking
> > the election. I'm worried about spooks doing it.
> Agents of
> > outlaw governments and corporations, who are the
> experts in
> > their field, well paid, with tons of the latest
> gear. I need such
> > strong mathematical protection against them that
> low barriers
> > like funny formats are irrelevant by comparison,
> they're
> > just inconvenient. Let's put our effort into
> defending
> > against the real threats, and if we succeed we'll
> be defeating the
> > skript kiddies as well, without any extra effort.
> >
> > Another way to say the same thing: if my link is
> already
> > tunneled through SSH2, I don't need an additional
> simple
> > substitution cipher. If they can break SSH2 (as
> far as I know,
> > they still can't) then they laugh at the extra
> cipher.
> > It *doesn't help*.
> > But the extra cipher slows *me* down. Make sense?
> >
> > Cameron
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 16:31:07 -0500
> > From: "Lara Shaffer"
> <lara@openvotingconsortium.org>
> > Subject: [OVC-discuss] suggestion to fix things...
> > To: <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Message-ID:
> <011001c54f5e$40d3f540$6500a8c0@unitec>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Why don't people suggest some things Jamboi and
> other new OVC Tech people
> > can read to get caught up?
> >
> > It is less his fault than ours that he keeps
> reinventing wheels and
> debating
> > issues that have already been discussed at length.
> We need to have more
> OVC
> > information on our site properly linked so people
> who haven't been working
> > for years on this can get involved.
> >
> > I would suggest that Jamboi and others speak more
> civil-like and
> > professional-like to each other (one could suggest
> some ground rules like
> no
> > name-calling, no unneccessary caps, no put downs,
> etc) but I've been told
> > that this is how tech people talk to each
> other....(maybe the non-tech
> girl
> > is right in that ground rules can be useful to
> everyone?)
> >
> > The meeting in SV went very well (except for the
> phone problem- sorry
> David
> > and Fred! We'll figure out a better system for
> next time.) I feel like
> the
> > OVC project is moving forward at full speed.
> Without Jamboi that meeting
> > would not have happened. We need new people to
> re-energize those who have
> > been working on this for a while.
> >
> > Let's not forget we are all working for a common
> goal: transparent,
> accurate
> > elections. Let's see what we can do to help each
> other (OVC vets- give the
> > new guys some stuff to read; OVC newbies- thanks
> for your energy and
> > enthusiasm, it is helping to move things along).
> >
> > As generation X says, "respect yo"
> > As professional adults say, "Please keep the
> discussion process in the
> realm
> > of civility"
> >
> > Lara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 16:37:27 -0700
> > From: Ron Crane <voting@lastland.net>
> > Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] OVCML Tek: A Good
> Solution to XML Tek
> > Insecurity
> > To: Open Voting Consortium discussion list
> > <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Message-ID:
> <249935B2-BB63-11D9-886E-000A95B95AD8@lastland.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
> delsp=yes; format=flowed
> >
> > On May 2, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Cameron L. Spitzer
> wrote:
> >
> > > It's been a long time since I had a copy of
> _Applied Cryptography_
> > > on my desk, but it seems to me Lesson One is the
> only thing in a
> > > cryptosystem that it makes sense to hide or make
> non-interoperable
> > > or different is the password.
> >
> > Yes. AC is *great* background for our project (and
> generally), and
> > should be recommended in the FAQ. For those
> interested, you can see
> > reviews and buy it here:
> >
>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471117099/102-4626758
> > -3961751?%5Fencoding=UTF8 .
> >
> > -R
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 21:38:11 -0400
> > From: "Roy M. Silvernail"
> <roy-ovc@rant-central.com>
> > Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] OVCML Tek: A Good
> Solution to XML Tek
> > Insecurity
> > To: Open Voting Consortium discussion list
> > <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Message-ID: <4276D603.8000705@rant-central.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Ron Crane wrote:
> >
> > > On May 2, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Cameron L. Spitzer
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> It's been a long time since I had a copy of
> _Applied Cryptography_
> > >> on my desk, but it seems to me Lesson One is
> the only thing in a
> > >> cryptosystem that it makes sense to hide or
> make non-interoperable
> > >> or different is the password.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. AC is *great* background for our project
> (and generally), and
> > > should be recommended in the FAQ. For those
> interested, you can see
> > > reviews and buy it here:
> > >
>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471117099/102-4626758
> > > -3961751?%5Fencoding=UTF8 .
> >
> > Permit me to also recommend _Practical
> Cryptography_ by Bruce Schneier
> > and Niels Ferguson (http://tinyurl.com/exv6t). PC
> follows on both AC
> > and Schneier's _Secrets and Lies_
> (http://tinyurl.com/du2ap). In the
> > preface to _Secrets_, Bruce writes "The error of
> _Applied Cryptography_
> > is that I didn't talk at all about the context. I
> talked about
> > cryptography as if it were The Answer(tm). I was
> pretty naive."
> >
> > _Practical Cryptography_ discusses the design of a
> cryptosystem from an
> > engineering perspective, including the
> infrastructure required to make
> > it work. And as several posters have noted, the
> context of our
> > application is crucial. _Applied Cryptography_ is
> a toolbox (and a very
> > good and complete one). _Practical Cryptography_
> is a detailed
> > application note. (and _Secrets and Lies_ is a
> good perspective on the
> > context issue itself)
> >
> > Cameron, you are quite correct. Assuming a
> well-designed cryptosystem,
> > the only component that needs to be kept secret is
> the key.
> >
> > --
> > Roy M. Silvernail is roy@rant-central.com, and
> you're not
> > "It's just this little chromium switch, here." -
> TFT
> > SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
> > http://www.rant-central.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:40:47 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: "Edmund R. Kennedy" <ekennedyx@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [OVC-discuss] Current state of voter ID
> issues per Charlotte
> > Observer
> > To: Open Voting Consortium discussion list
> > <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Message-ID:
> <20050503014047.68587.qmail@web80306.mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >
>
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/editorial/11536003.htm
> >
> > No cost registration is required to read this
> article.
> >
> > Sorry.
> >
> > Ed Kennedy
> >
> > --
> > 10777 Bendigo Cove
> > San Diego, CA 92126-2510
> >
> > 858-578-8842
> >
> > Work for the common good.
> > My profile: <http://geocities.com/ekennedyx/>
> > I blog now and then at:
> <http://ekennedyx.blogspot.com/>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 19:59:30 -0700
> > From: Arthur Keller <voting@kellers.org>
> > Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] suggestion to fix
> things...
> > To: Open Voting Consortium discussion list
> > <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Cc: Lara Shaffer <lara@openvotingconsortium.org>,
> > ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net
> > Message-ID: <p06210253be9c991cf322@[172.16.1.24]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ;
> format="flowed"
> >
> > At 4:31 PM -0500 5/2/05, Lara Shaffer wrote:
> > >Why don't people suggest some things Jamboi and
> other new OVC Tech people
> > >can read to get caught up?
> > >
> > >It is less his fault than ours that he keeps
> reinventing wheels and
> debating
> > >issues that have already been discussed at
> length. We need to have more
> OVC
> > >information on our site properly linked so people
> who haven't been
> working
> > >for years on this can get involved.
> > >
> > >I would suggest that Jamboi and others speak more
> civil-like and
> > >professional-like to each other (one could
> suggest some ground rules like
> no
> > >name-calling, no unneccessary caps, no put downs,
> etc) but I've been told
> > >that this is how tech people talk to each
> other....(maybe the non-tech
> girl
> > >is right in that ground rules can be useful to
> everyone?)
> > >
> > >The meeting in SV went very well (except for the
> phone problem- sorry
> David
> > >and Fred! We'll figure out a better system for
> next time.) I feel like
> the
> > >OVC project is moving forward at full speed.
> Without Jamboi that meeting
> > >would not have happened. We need new people to
> re-energize those who
> have
> > >been working on this for a while.
> > >
> > >Let's not forget we are all working for a common
> goal: transparent,
> accurate
> > >elections. Let's see what we can do to help each
> other (OVC vets- give
> the
> > >new guys some stuff to read; OVC newbies- thanks
> for your energy and
> > >enthusiasm, it is helping to move things along).
> > >
> > >As generation X says, "respect yo"
> > >As professional adults say, "Please keep the
> discussion process in the
> realm
> > >of civility"
> > >
> > >Lara
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OVC discuss mailing lists
> > >Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
> arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
> >
> > Check out http://www-db.stanford.edu/pub/keller
> under voting
> > See FAQ on the OVC website
> >
> > At some point, read the Wiki (but it's not up now)
> >
> > Try out the demo (available from the OVC website)
> >
> > Those are a good start
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Arthur
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Arthur M. Keller, Ph.D., 3881 Corina Way, Palo
> Alto, CA 94303-4507
> > tel +1(650)424-0202, fax +1(650)424-0424
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 20:56:00 -0700
> > From: "Ed Kennedy" <ekennedyx@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [OVC-discuss] The web site and the movie
> links
> > To: "Open Voting Consortium discussion list"
> > <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > Message-ID:
> <000801c54f94$060a0040$6401a8c0@homet3uj9pkik9>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > "Electile Dysfunction." leads to a web page that
> has a QuickTime window
> pop up but nothing happens.
> > "Votergate." Only the streaming version works and
> it's quality is kind of
> poor. I did finally get the Quicktime to download
> but it's tiny.
> > "Invisible Ballots" doesn't run
> >
> > I thought I heard something about OVC having it's
> own video. Could I have
> more information on that right away? I'd like to
> have something for the
> MeetUp.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Thanks, Edmund R. Kennedy
> >
> > Always work for the common good.
> >
> > 10777 Bendigo Cove
> > San Diego, CA 92126-2510
> > USA
> >
> > I blog now and then at:
> <http://ekennedyx.blogspot.com/>
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
>
http://listman.sonic.net/pipermail/ovc-discuss/attachments/20050502/076961f9
> /attachment.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OVC discussion list
> > Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
> arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
> >
> > End of OVC-discuss Digest, Vol 7, Issue 23
> > ******************************************
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OVC discuss mailing lists
> Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
> arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>

-- 
10777 Bendigo Cove
San Diego, CA 92126-2510
858-578-8842
Work for the common good.
My profile:  <http://geocities.com/ekennedyx/>
I blog now and then at:  <http://ekennedyx.blogspot.com/>
_______________________________________________
OVC discuss mailing lists
Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
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= quotations under fair use, are released to the Public Domain    
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Received on Tue May 31 23:17:14 2005

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