Re: Document on Holt bill (was Re: I need your help today -- oppose Holt bill as introduced)

From: Teresa Hommel <tahommel_at_earthlink_dot_net>
Date: Tue Jun 30 2009 - 07:50:36 CDT

I was looking for a formal statement on their web site with a link.

Teresa

Nancy Tobi wrote:

> I have posted OVC's statement on holt on DFNH, and BBV has posted too.
>
> http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/node/view/6662
>
> http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/show.cgi?8/80460
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin@gmail.com
> <mailto:echerlin@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:14 PM, Teresa
> Hommel<tahommel@earthlink.net <mailto:tahommel@earthlink.net>> wrote:
> > Was this project ever oompleted?
>
> No, it exists as a discussion draft with all of the objectionable
> language laid out for comments. I'll ping the group to see who wants
> to continue the analysis.
>
> > I want to post a link to OVC's position
> > against Holt's bill. Please send me a link, if there is one.
> > Teresa Hommel
> >
> > Edward Cherlin wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Edward Cherlin
> <echerlin@gmail.com <mailto:echerlin@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Created. I'm going through the bill now, pulling out passages
> where I
> > see issues.
> >
> >
> > First pass finished. I gave Alan administrative privileges. How
> shall
> > we divvy up further work?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Edward Cherlin
> <echerlin@gmail.com <mailto:echerlin@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Alan Dechert
> <dechert@gmail.com <mailto:dechert@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I (or we) need to work up a document to use.
> >
> >
> > I'll create one at Google Documents with your initial posting as the
> > starting point, but with the correct URL for the bill.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are many big problems with the bill. Generally, it
> enshrines the
> > proprietary model and would result in very expensive equipment
> that would
> > become quickly obsolete -- like DREs.
> >
> >
> > We need the list of problems to go into the document.
> >
> >
> >
> > If passed as introduced, it would end pollsite voting altogether.
> > Jurisdictions could not afford the machines and they would push
> more for
> > all-mail voting -- the least secure and least accessible voting
> model ever.
> >
> > Alan D.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Cherlin"
> <echerlin@gmail.com <mailto:echerlin@gmail.com>>
> > To: "Open Voting Consortium discussion list"
> <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] I need your help today -- oppose Holt
> > billasintroduced
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Alan Dechert
> <dechert@gmail.com <mailto:dechert@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Like any message sent to the list, it can be referred to by it's
> own url ...
> > e.g.
> >
> > http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/June.2009/0039.html
> >
> >
> > Not everyone is comfortable extracting information from multiple
> > e-mails. Most of the people I have in mind to send this to will want
> > to see the full set of complaints about the bill on a page on
> the OVC
> > site.
> >
> >
> >
> > However, I used a url that evaporated for the bill. Here's a url
> that will
> > persist:
> >
> > http://www.openvotingconsortium.org/ad/hr2894.pdf
> >
> > Alan D.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Cherlin"
> <echerlin@gmail.com <mailto:echerlin@gmail.com>>
> > To: "Open Voting Consortium discussion list"
> <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 10:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] I need your help today -- oppose Holt
> bill
> > asintroduced
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there a URL for this that I can refer others to?
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Alan Dechert
> <dechert@gmail.com <mailto:dechert@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Below is a copy of what I sent to our announcements list
> >
> > ********
> > Dear Friends of Open Voting:
> >
> > I need your help today. As you may recall, US Representative
> Rush Holt has
> > introduced several badly flawed voting reform bills in the past
> few years.
> > We have opposed them for a variety of reasons.
> >
> > Last week, Holt introduced his new one: The Voter Confidence and
> Increased
> > Accessibility Act of 2009 (HR 2894)
> > http://holt.house.gov/voting.shtml
> >
> > In general, the bill is not as bad as the previous. Some
> provisions are
> > good. Ban DREs, ban wireless, provide some funding for voting
> software that
> > would be publicly available. However, overall, the bill is still
> bad. The
> > deep flaw with this bill, generally speaking, remains the same:
> it would put
> > the federal goverment too much into running the voting system.
> Holt is
> > trying to do too much and making a mess of it.
> >
> > Parts of it are outrageously bad. The main offending part for me
> is where
> > they say the machine for individuals with disabilities must
> allow the voter
> > to "independently verify and cast the permanent paper ballot without
> > requiring the voter to manually handle the paper ballot;" This is
> > ridiculous. This the proverbial $900 hammer approach. No machine
> has this
> > capability currently, and such a machine would be many times
> more expensive
> > than necessary. Potential solutions would solve one almost
> non-existent
> > problem and create several others -- besides the expense.
> >
> > It's the same mentality that led to adding the expensive
> printing mechanism
> > to the DRE voting machines. Vendors didn't mind doing it as long
> as the
> > government was paying for it. Guess what? Government paid for
> it. No wait,
> > YOU paid for it. Now those machines are getting junked. So,
> tax-payers
> > underwrote stupid voting architecture. Diebold et al got paid to
> develop it
> > and sell it. Now the stupid machines go in the trash and Diebold
> keeps the
> > money. It's another example of a very few outspoken "disabled rights
> > activists" -- people in bed with industry -- creating a very
> expensive
> > mandate.
> >
> > If we can't get this changed, the bill must be killed. Other
> parts of the
> > bill should just be removed rather than fixed. We might support
> it if chunks
> > of it were simply removed.
> >
> > A here is a link directly to the bill language.
> >
> >
> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c111Uxz8FM:e0
> <http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/%7Ec111Uxz8FM:e0>:
> >
> > SEC. 102. ACCESSIBILITY AND BALLOT VERIFICATION FOR
> > INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES.
> > ...
> >
> > (II) allows the voter to privately and
> > independently verify and cast the permanent
> > paper ballot without requiring the
> > voter to manually handle the paper ballot;
> >
> > I need your help contacting Congress in opposition to this bill.
> >
> > I also need your financial support so OVC can continue to
> develop and
> > demonstrate sensible open source voting technology, and defeat
> crappy
> > legislation like this.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OVC-discuss mailing list
> > OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> > By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to
> release the
> > content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of
> > copyrighted material quoted according to fair use, including
> publicly
> > archiving at http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
> >
> >
> > --
> > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> > And Children are my nation.
> > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> > http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OVC-discuss mailing list
> > OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> > By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to
> release the
> > content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of
> > copyrighted material quoted according to fair use, including
> publicly
> > archiving at http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OVC-discuss mailing list
> > OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> > By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to
> release the
> > content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of
> > copyrighted material quoted according to fair use, including
> publicly
> > archiving at http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
> >
> >
> > --
> > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> > And Children are my nation.
> > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> > http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OVC-discuss mailing list
> > OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> > By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to
> release the
> > content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of
> > copyrighted material quoted according to fair use, including
> publicly
> > archiving at http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OVC-discuss mailing list
> > OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> > By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to
> release the
> > content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of
> > copyrighted material quoted according to fair use, including
> publicly
> > archiving at http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
> >
> >
> > --
> > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> > And Children are my nation.
> > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> > http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> > And Children are my nation.
> > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> > http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> > And Children are my nation.
> > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> > http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OVC-discuss mailing list
> > OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> > http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> > By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to
> release the
> > content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of
> > copyrighted material quoted according to fair use, including
> publicly
> > archiving at http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> And Children are my nation.
> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
>
> _______________________________________________
> OVC-discuss mailing list
> OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net <mailto:OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
> http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
> By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to
> release the content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the
> exception of copyrighted material quoted according to fair use,
> including publicly archiving at
> http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OVC-discuss mailing list
>OVC-discuss@listman.sonic.net
>http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/ovc-discuss
>By sending email to the OVC-discuss list, you thereby agree to release the content of your posts to the Public Domain--with the exception of copyrighted material quoted according to fair use, including publicly archiving at http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
>

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Received on Tue Jun 30 23:17:19 2009

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