Re: tabulation

From: Edmund R. Kennedy <ekennedyx_at_yahoo_dot_com>
Date: Tue Feb 22 2005 - 12:27:32 CST

Hello Paul:

About 'the numbers'. Welcome to the wonderful world
of Election Reform. Just like herding cats.

Thanks, Ed Kennedy

--- Paul Kinzelman <paul@kinzelman.com> wrote:

> Very interesting proposal, could be a great template
> for other states.
> But I didn't see any actual *numbers* in there and
> bills at least here
> apparently have to have actual numbers for costs.
> And I agree about
> the future savings (in fact, it could be argued we
> would have saved over
> $200B if bush had properly lost in 2000), but the
> state bills here at
> least apparently need to have an actual cost when
> proposed.
> I'll pass this along to the NM group for them to
> use.
> Thanks!
>
> At 10:11 AM 2/22/2005, you wrote:
>
> >Paul Kinzelman wrote:
> >
> >>That's all good background/technical info, but
> what I was really looking
> >>for was
> >>practical information.
> >>
> >>In other words, I talked with a state senator, he
> sounded sympathetic,
> >>but the first words out of his mouth were "How
> much will it cost".
> >
> >
> >This isn't really an answer to your question Paul,
> but if you read this it
> >shows how the OVC system will save states money in
> the long run:
> >
> >http://utahcountvotes.org/UVES_concept.pdf
> >
> >Hopefully someone else will answer your question
> more fully.
> >
> >>
> >>The OVC web has some info about the voting
> machines themselves
> >>(can be obsolete PCs), but I was wondering more
> about the cost of the
> >>tabulating stuff. Can existing paper ballot
> tabulating machines be
> >>reprogrammed and used?
> >>Do you have any sources for machines for purchase?
> How much?
> >>
> >>At 06:11 PM 2/21/2005, you wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hello Paul,
> >>>
> >>>Try
> http://gyaku.pair.com/vote/drupal/?q=book/view/85
>
>>>http://gyaku.pair.com/vote/drupal/?q=book/view/125
> >>>
> >>>for starters. There is a lot of stuff in the
> wiki. IMHO I like Doug
> >>>Jones work althougth Keith Copenhagen's work can
> give you interesting
> >>>insights. There are various issues that occur to
> me:
> >>>
> >>>1. Wholesale versus retail fraud.
> >>>2. What to focus on first.
> >>>
> >>>Here's some additional information:
> >>>
> >>>The current and generally most effective process
> is that those paper
> >>>ballots that are marked or printed out are ran
> throug an optical ballot
> >>>scanner. The optical scanner is a specialized
> optical scanner that has a
> >>>row of LED's and photo detectors. The machines
> automatically pull the
> >>>document through the reader and deliver the
> ballots into a sealed box
> >>>for recount as needed. The scanner readouts are
> translated into votes
> >>>and written to a data chip. OVC proposes using a
> 2-d bar code system but
> >>>that's a whole another story. The data chip is
> removable and is held in
> >>>place mechanically and with a tamper evident
> seal. Unless something
> >>>unusual goes on, the chip is what gets read into
> the tabulation
> >>>system. Also, a paper tape is generated at the
> beginning and end of the day.
> >>>
> >>>Also, a reconciliation process similar to the
> daily sweep done between
> >>>the cash in a cash register and the paper tape
> totals from that
> >>>register, has to be done. In this case, the
> reconciliation has to occur
> >>>between the number of votes recorded on the chip
> and physical ballots
> >>>sitting in the ballot box. Also, don't forget
> reconciling provisional
> >>>ballots, spoiled ballots and absentee ballots
> turned in at the polling place.
> >>>
> >>>Oh yes, all 50 states have a different approach,
> and within each state,
> >>>each county may vary from the state standard.
> Perhaps the scarest
> >>>variations occur at the 100's of polling places
> in each county. As poll
> >>>workers usually get zip training and are
> generally exhasted by the time
> >>>canvassing starts (a poll worker' s day start at
> 0600 and can easily go
> >>>to 2100 and beyond) they may blow off most of
> what they are suppose to
> >>>do in canvassing the vote so they can go home.
> Some states that use
> >>>paper ballots have the ballot taken to the County
> Registrar's office and
> >>>machine counted there. Some other states or
> counties actually count the
> >>>ballots by hand.
> >>>
> >>>As always, here's our most common comment:
> >>>
> >>>" We've been working on this project for several
> years and we've
> >>>discussed a lot of stuff. If you can't find it
> here, you might try our
> >>>searchable correspondence site
> >>>http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/
> "
> >>>
> >>>HTH, Ed Kennedy
> >>>
> >>>Paul Kinzelman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Forgive what might be a stupid question, I
> didn't see it addressed
> >>>>in the FAQs, but have you folks addressed issues
> about how
> >>>>to tabulate all the paper ballots printed out by
> the open source
> >>>>machines?
> >>>>
> >>>>And has anybody contacted the
> http://www.invisibleballots.com
> >>>>folks? What you're doing I think dovetails quite
> well with the
> >>>>issues they bring up.
> >>>>
> >>>>-Paul Kinzelman, Peralta, NM
> >>>>http://www.kinzelman.com
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
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> >>>>arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
> >>>
> >>>
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=====

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Received on Sun Feb 27 17:17:07 2005

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