Re: Ballot Validation and voting machine initializtion

From: Edmund R. Kennedy <ekennedyx_at_yahoo_dot_com>
Date: Tue Dec 14 2004 - 11:47:32 CST

Hello All:
Yep. I knew this topic would get people excited again. I remember the last discussion. Yes, dumb cards might do it. My provisional voter add on is just that, an add on and not needed for this generation of system.
As for the camera and OCR scheme:
How would you deal with privacy anonymity issues, not to mention voter confidence if there is a camera staring at them? Sure I can tell you that the camera is turned off after you start the voting process but would you believe me? This is a chronic design issue, the tension between ease of use and privacy. Also, if I'm Gomer Pyle, would I even have a clue on how to use this? The hard token idea is at least kind of like an ATM. It's got to be simple for the voter.
Thanks, Ed Kennedy

Keith Copenhagen <> wrote:
Make that "computer's camera" and "envelope".

Pass the coffee, please.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:38:41 -0800, Keith Copenhagen

> I claim there is a natural conflict between the "open" in OVC and
> information
> that is only readable by a machine.
> We are talking about an equally or more important data flow parallel to
> the ballot
> which is the "voter qualified to cast" information.
> If you are specifying a mag card (barcode/intelligent token) why not
> have a
> human readable voter registration paper-card that is "shown" to a camera
> camera and
> OCR'd to determine the ballot to provide.
> The voter reg card could be printed on demand by the sign-in station and
> collected synchronous with the ballot. The reg card could be
> pre-printed or be the
> provisional ballot envelop.
> -keith
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:57:46 +0000, wrote:
>> I have an innate suspicion of using a smart card that contains the
>> voter ID. It could be used to undermine the secret ballot.
>> --
>> Kurt
>> This email sent using 100%
>> recycled electrons.
>> -------------- Original message from Jim March :
>> --------------
>>> Ed Kennedy wrote:
>>> > Hello Ken:
>>> >
>>> > I have come to believe that we do need intelligent tokens to initiate
>>> > voting machines (surprise Arthur!). The purpose of these tokens woud
>>> > be several fold.
>>> >
>>> > The biggest issue is how does one initialize a voting machine for
>>> each
>>> > voter. Diebold and I suspect others handled this by using an
>>> > intelligent token that the voter inserted into the machine to start
>>> it
>>> > up for each voter. I know we went round and round about that last
>>> > winter and spring and came with at least 5 different methods that had
>>> > issues around each one. Since I've been a poll worker I've changed my
>>> > mind.
>>> >
>>> > To handle primary elections where voters must vote by party. They
>>> > would declare their party preference to the poll worker at the index
>>> > who would generate the proper token.
>>> Ummm...couple comments here.
>>> In the voter registration data collected by the SecState's office,
>>> party
>>> affiliation is listed. They can output Comma Separated Values data to
>>> the county, which your system then imports.
>>> The volume of data is small enough that every voting machine can have
>>> the whole set. That means there's really no problem at all with people
>>> voting at ANY precinct(!) because once they identify themselves to the
>>> system, it "knows" where they live and what party they are, and can
>>> present the ballot accordingly.
>>> The only remaining issue is "how do they identify themselves"?
>>> Avante's answer is a sixteen digit alphanumeric code for each voter.
>>> They use the first eight digits to ID the human, the next eight to ID
>>> the ballot style used (I think two or three of those digits is a county
>>> ID unique in the nation). This code is on a "dumb card" that's very
>>> tough and flexible. Once ANY of the systems records a voter with that
>>> number as having voted at a specific time, when the totals are all
>>> piled
>>> up, any duplicates result in a flag and all subsequent after the first
>>> get tossed...copying an ID card doesn't allow fraud.
>>> But...we should remember that Avante was using such cards to ID people
>>> coming in and out of buildings and trade shows. Their voting system was
>>> originally an attempt to find a new use for the cards . So they
>>> were biased towards using said cards and hence we can't assume that's
>>> the only way to skin this cat.
>>> However. They did prove that a "dumb token" can be used to ID voters.
>>> And in their scheme, inserting the card cannot insert extranous data or
>>> program files. In the Diebold touchscreens, the "smart cards" have 128k
>>> RAM on board of which only 4k - 8k is needed for "voter ID" - the rest
>>> is full of God only knows what. I cannot recommend highly enough y'all
>>> do NOT do like that, or you'll have me outside your office doors
>>> protesting yer arses :).
>>> Jim
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Keith Copenhagen
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Received on Fri Dec 31 23:17:13 2004

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