Re: Disturbing web site.

From: Arthur Keller <arthur_at_kellers_dot_org>
Date: Mon Dec 06 2004 - 13:01:29 CST

Laird, actually my message of
http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/OVC-Demo2/0228.html
said that some of us were looking into central tabulation systems.
In my opinion, that's where the action is, since the other
organizations seem focused on the voting machine.

I think that it would be a good outcome for the combination of
precinct-based optical scan systems along with components for
accessible voting (both vote and verify) together with open source
central tabulation and reporting system.

Best regards,
Arthur

At 1:46 PM -0500 12/6/04, laird popkin wrote:
>For example (unless I missed it) OVC is only currently addressing the
>front-end of the process (collecting votes from voters and tabulating
>them at polling stations) and not the central tabulation system. So
>there's certainly room for a current voting system vendor to sell an
>OVC-based front-end with their proprietary central tabulation system.
>I think that this is a _great_ combination for us, since it would
>eliminate a whole raft of integration issues. And we've always thought
>that vendors could sell proprietary hardware, services, documentation,
>etc., around the OVC software.
>
>
>On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:28:06 -0800, Arthur Keller <arthur@kellers.org> wrote:
>> Ed, some models of open source software allow proprietary COTS
>> components. If a vendor wanted to sell some proprietary COTS
>> components, making the voting-specific parts of the system open
>> source might be one way of selling the entire system. In addition,
>> the vendor could have a nice service business for it or its partners.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Arthur
>>
>>
>>
>> At 9:18 AM -0800 12/6/04, Edmund R. Kennedy wrote:
>> >Hello Arthur:
>> >
>> >Is there a good business reason for anyone to do so?
>> >
>> >Thanks, Ed Kennedy
>> >
>> >Arthur Keller <arthur@kellers.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >Someone with loads of money and professional staff could build an
>> >open source system, and it could be compatible with our
>> >(incompletely defined) specifications. Given the low likelihood we
>> >can do so ourselves in the HAVA timeframe, I sure hope that someone
>> >does.
>> >
>> >Best regards,
>> >Arthur
>> >
>> >At 10:33 PM -0800 12/5/04, Ed Kennedy wrote:
>> >
>> >>Hello Teresa,
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >Now it's my term to seem a little dense. If private parties could
>> >come up with a machine/system that is built roughly to our
>> >specifications, why not? Are we so much better at this than
>> >everyone else? Yes, I'd like to think so, but I'm willing to admit
>> >that it could be otherwise. Please see my questions sprinkled below.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Thanks, Ed Kennedy
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >
>> >From: <mailto:tahommel@earthlink.net>Teresa Hommel
>> >
>> >To: <mailto:ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>Open Voting Consortium
>> >discussion list
>> >
>> >Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:44 AM
>> >
>> >Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] Disturbing web site.
>> >
>> >
>> >No Board of Elections has the technical staff that would be needed
>> >to securely manage computer systems.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Never, ever?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Democracy requires voting technology that ordinary non-technical
>> >citizen observers can effectively observe.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Um, are you advocating a return to paper and pencil? OVC is about a
>> >technical approach. While I'm suppose to be a smart kind of fellow,
>> >I doubt if I could easily follow Python (the Linux oriented computer
>> >language in which the demo is written).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >No matter what the good qualities of the computer system, an outside
>> >vendor tech has to tell the BoE folks and observers what is going
>> >on, and can tell them anything that sounds plausible. What non-tech
>> >observer would be able to independently know what software is
>> >running in the computer? None.
> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >Why couldn't the BoE or registrar's office hire experts of their own
>> >to challenge the vendor's representative?
> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >Then what are the legal standards for when the voter-verified paper
>> >ballots have to be counted?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Huh?
>> >
>> >Please check out
>> ><http://www.wheresthepaper.org/CACM_YaleStudy.htm>http://www.wheresthepaper.org/CACM_YaleStudy.htm
>> >which has a link to the original Yale study.
>> >
>> >Solely for my reference in working with the wiki
>> ><http://openvotingconsortium.org/wiki>http://openvotingconsortium.org/wiki
>>
>>
>> >did the authors give you permission to reproduce their ariticle or
>> >are you relying on fair use or is that just a link? BTW, my copy of
>> >Acrobat chokes on the second page of that file, something about a -e
>> >token not being recognized.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Thanks, Ed Kennedy
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Teresa Hommel
>> >
>> >Edmund R. Kennedy wrote:
>> >
>> >>Hello All:
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >On further reflection, if they can deliver the same platform, vvpat,
>> >paper is the actual document, open source, stand along machines,
>> >linux, ran from disk, etc. I don't think we should obstruct them.
>> >However, we should be very suspicious given the central tendencies
>> >of theses private sector groups. I am not confident that voting
>> >systems should even be handled by the private sector but I am
>> >willing to see what happens.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Thanks, Ed Kennedy
>> >
>> >Rick Gideon <mailto:rick@openvoting.org><rick@openvoting.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> ><http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2003_July_15/ai_105442202>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2003_July_15/ai_105442202
>> >
>> >Looks like the same old players who already have their fingers in this
>> >messy pie.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Ed Kennedy wrote:
>> >
>> >> <http://www.electiontrust.com/>http://www.electiontrust.com/
>>
>>
>> >>
>> >> In particular, see "Partners, Everyone Counts." Private open source.
>> >> --
>> >> Thanks, Ed Kennedy
>> >>
>> >> 10777 Bendigo Cove
>> >> San Diego, CA 92126-2510
>> >> USA
>> >>
>> >> "Let us all tend to our gardens." Candide - Voltaire
>> >>
>> >>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >OVC discuss mailing lists
>> >Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>> ><mailto:arthur@openvotingconsortium.org>arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >10777 Bendigo Cove
>> >San Diego, CA 92126-2510
>> >
>> >"We must all cultivate our gardens." Candide-Voltaire
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >OVC discuss mailing lists
>> >Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>> ><mailto:arthur@openvotingconsortium.org>arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >OVC discuss mailing lists
>> >Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>>arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >OVC discuss mailing lists
>> >Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>>arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >Arthur M. Keller, Ph.D., 3881 Corina Way, Palo Alto, CA 94303-4507
>> >tel +1(650)424-0202, fax +1(650)424-0424
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >OVC discuss mailing lists
>> >Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>>arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >10777 Bendigo Cove
>> >San Diego, CA 92126-2510
>> >
>> >"We must all cultivate our gardens." Candide-Voltaire
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> >OVC discuss mailing lists
>> >Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>>arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>>
>> --
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Arthur M. Keller, Ph.D., 3881 Corina Way, Palo Alto, CA 94303-4507
>> tel +1(650)424-0202, fax +1(650)424-0424
>> _______________________________________________
>> OVC discuss mailing lists
>> Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>>
>
>
>--
>- Laird Popkin, cell: 917/453-0700
>_______________________________________________
>OVC discuss mailing lists
>Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to arthur@openvotingconsortium.org

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Received on Fri Dec 31 23:17:06 2004

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