Re: Privacy is about 50% of the OVC mission

From: Arthur Keller <voting_at_kellers_dot_org>
Date: Thu Apr 28 2005 - 13:55:10 CDT

There are two approaches to ballots under glass: reel-to-reel and
slice-and-dice. Reel-to-reel preserves order. Slice-and-dice
doesn't. There's some description about this in our privacy paper at
http://www-db.stanford.edu/pub/keller under voting.

Best regards,
Arthur

At 6:36 PM -0700 4/26/05, Ed Kennedy wrote:
>Yes, that's one of the reasons why the 'Ballots under glass' are a
>total kludge. FYI: I'm talking about a 'bolt on' printer to a
>regular DRE. The big issue is that the order of voters is
>preserved. There are other issues also like dealing with long
>ballots. However the big deal is again, voter privacy.
>--
>
>Thanks, Edmund R. Kennedy
>
>Always work for the common good.
>
>10777 Bendigo Cove
>San Diego, CA 92126-2510
>USA
>
>I blog now and then at: <http://ekennedyx.blogspot.com/>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "JamBoi" <jamboi@yahoo.com>
>To: "Open Voting Consortium discussion list" <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 5:08 PM
>Subject: Re: [OVC-discuss] Privacy is about 50% of the OVC mission
>
>>Our OVC system and proposal MUST PROTECT PRIVACY OF THE VOTE. There
>>should be NO WAY FOR ANYONE ELSE TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU VOTED where at
>>all possible (sometime circumstances work out in such a way where its
>>obvious how someone voted and there's no way to cover it up (assuming
>>their voted wasn't shifted by someone else).
>>
>>JamBoi
>>
>>--- Ron Crane <voting@lastland.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Apr 25, 2005, at 6:53 PM, Ed Kennedy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello David and all:
>>>> Please don't confuse personal privacy with voter privacy. Voter
>>>> privacy has a very specific reason behind it which is to discourage
>>>
>>>> vote buying and more importantly voter intimidation. I guess I am
>>>a
>>>> little guilty of drifting off topic here when I suggest that being
>>>> comfortable with ones own self and trying to live a blameless life
>>>is
>>>> the realistic approach to our very real loss of personal privacy.
>>>I'm
>>>> glad that David admits that privacy is something of an illusion and
>>>I
>>>> guess I should just leave it at that.
>>>
>>>Personal privacy also has a very specific "reason behind it". It's
>>>called Liberty and dignity. But more than that, it's called freedom
>>>from unwarranted governmental coercion.
>>>
>>>> ...
>>>> As for Ron, of course a utility bill has a name and address. So
>>>what?
>>>> Such things are easily faked both in the poll book and in your
>>>> corresponding document.
>>>
>>>In my scheme, the primary registration document is the birth
>>>certificate or other indicia of citizenship. Yes, those can be faked.
>>>
>>>How often would they be for this purpose? I think not often.
>>>Certainly
>>>a system using these as registration documents would have much less
>>>registration fraud than current systems, at essentially no sacrifice
>>>in
>>>privacy.
>>>
>>>The utility bill (or photo ID, which is preferred) does two things:
>>>it
>>>establishes residence during registration, and it establishes a
>>>correspondence to the registration record during voting.
>>>
>>>> Could someone please help me out on explaining to Ron and David why
>>>
>>>> this is an issue? All I can say is that there has been a long
>>>> American tradition of a person or people voting multiple times in
>>>> different locations. Part of my problem is that I personally
>>>equate
>>>> 'voter integrity' with 'voter disenfranchisement' and I'm having to
>>>
>>>> work as the devil's advocate. Regardless, we've got to get beyond
>>>> personal ideology on this. THIS ISSUE WILL NOT GO AWAY.
>>>
>>>I am offering a good - though not foolproof - solution to the
>>>problem,
>>>one that does not require the use of biometrics or other intrusive
>>>technologies.
>>>
>>>-R
>>>
>>>> -- >
>>>> Thanks, Edmund R. Kennedy
>>>>
>>>> Always work for the common good.
>>>>
>>>> 10777 Bendigo Cove
>>>> San Diego, CA 92126-2510
>>>> USA
>>>>
>>>> I blog now and then at: <http://ekennedyx.blogspot.com/>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Mertz"
>>>> <voting-project@gnosis.cx>
>>>> To: "Open Voting Consortium discussion list"
>>>> <ovc-discuss@listman.sonic.net>
>>> > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 6:12 PM
>>>> Subject: [OVC-discuss] Privacy is about 50% of the OVC mission
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Edmund R. Kennedy" <ekennedyx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> |It took many years for me to realize that the only way to deal
>>>with
>>>>> |this is to try and live my life in a blameless way and to be
>>>>> comfortable
>>>>> |with who I am, warts and all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if Ed would be equally happy to give up his right to a
>>>secret
>>>>> ballot on the same grounds that he has "nothing to hide?" We
>>>could
>>>>> just
>>>>> have every voter sign a witnessed affidavit that s/he intended to
>>>vote
>>>>> for such-and-such candidates to authenticate voters.
>>>>>
>>>>> A whole lot of what OVC is about is *protecting privacy*
>>>>> (specifically,
>>>>> vote anonymity)... it sure seems strange for an OVC'er to start
>>>>> arguing
>>>>> we ought to give up the illusion of privacy, and just do things we
>>>
>>>>> don't
>>>>> mind people knowing about.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OVC discuss mailing lists
>>>>> Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>>>>> arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OVC discuss mailing lists
>>>> Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>>>> arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>OVC discuss mailing lists
>>>Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
>>>arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>JamBoi
>>
>>"Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
>>http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________
>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>>_______________________________________________
>>OVC discuss mailing lists
>>Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>OVC discuss mailing lists
>Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to arthur@openvotingconsortium.org

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arthur M. Keller, Ph.D., 3881 Corina Way, Palo Alto, CA  94303-4507
tel +1(650)424-0202, fax +1(650)424-0424
_______________________________________________
OVC discuss mailing lists
Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
==================================================================
= The content of this message, with the exception of any external 
= quotations under fair use, are released to the Public Domain    
==================================================================
Received on Sat Apr 30 23:17:19 2005

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Sat Apr 30 2005 - 23:17:22 CDT