Re: I need some help

From: Alan Dechert <dechert_at_gmail_dot_com>
Date: Wed Apr 27 2005 - 10:54:15 CDT

http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/people/faculty/mshamos/resshort.htm

Try google

"michael shamos" carnegie mellon

Note that he is one of the world's experts on billiards.

Interesting character.

Alan Dechert

> Yes, I'd never heard of Shamos or looked at his stuff before. I
> understand what you are asking for and why, but I was struck by the
> question of what was his motivation to make such an obviously specious
> argument. Is there a URL I can go to to learn more about this person?
>
> JamBoi
>
> --- Ron Crane <voting@lastland.net> wrote:
>
> > My apologies. I shouldn't have assumed that you already were familiar
> >
> > with his work, or with the rough-draft rebuttal I've previously
> > posted.
> > Shamos downplays and/or mocks many concerns about
> > electronically-based
> > voting systems, especially DREs, though I know nothing about what
> > motivates him to do so. In any case, I am writing a more formal
> > rebuttal, and needed (still need) the requested citation for one of
> > my
> > assertions.
> >
> > -R
> >
> > > My point is that this Dr. Shamos looks to be either ignorant tool
> > of
> > > the DRE Cartel or trying to pull something (the tek info only
> > serves to
> > > underline and support that so it looks like you might not have
> > caught
> > > my point).
> > >
> > > JamBoi
> > >
> > > --- Ron Crane <voting@lastland.net> wrote:
> > >> I am very familiar with realtime systems, having designed and
> > >> implemented them for some years. My request does not go to the
> > nature
> > >>
> > >> of such systems, nor to any questions about their language of
> > >> implementation, nor to the silliness of the comparison between
> > voting
> > >>
> > >> systems and flight control systems. My request is merely for a
> > >> citation
> > >> for the given proposition.
> > >>
> > >> By the way, nothing about Java prevents a vendor from writing a
> > cheat
> > >>
> > >> ("Trojan Horse" or "trapdoor") into a system implemented using it.
> > >> Java's security model is concerned with protecting items in the
> > >> environment in which the Java VM runs (e.g. your files) from
> > >> malicious
> > >> Java apps downloaded from untrusted sources (e.g. the web). It is
> > not
> > >>
> > >> concerned with protecting users of a Java program from code that
> > >> computes its result (e.g. a tabulation of votes) differently from
> > the
> > >>
> > >> manner in which it is advertised. The latter is much more
> > important
> > >> to
> > >> voting system security than the former.
> > >>
> > >> -Ron
> > >>
> > >> On Apr 26, 2005, at 5:33 PM, JamBoi wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> One vital difference with flight control and elections is the
> > >> nature of
> > >>> flight control systems. Flight control system are what are
> > called
> > >> Real
> > >>> Time (RT) systems with Real Time Operating Systems (RTOS). They
> > >> must
> > >>> be absolutely precise re: their timing. They are highly
> > >> sophisticated
> > >>> programs done frequently on a very low level of programming.
> > Their
> > >>> reliability is a matter of life and death. There are a few other
> > >>> applications like medical, military and manufacturing that
> > >> typically
> > >>> are RT, but ELECTION SOFTWARE IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT ONE OF THEM.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is absolutely no need for nanosecond precision on a voting
> > or
> > >>> tabulating machine. The software could theoretically be written
> > in
> > >>> extremely high level languages with little problem unless the
> > >>> performance becomes so slow that the user interface is
> > compromised.
> > >>> That is really the only contraint as far as timing goes, so there
> > >> is
> > >>> absolutley no need for an RT election system. As a matter of
> > fact,
> > >>> because of the difficulty of maintaining such software there are
> > >> many
> > >>> reasons you would NOT want to design an RT election system!
> > >>>
> > >>> This looks like an extremely ignorant argument to me. The only
> > >> good
> > >>> reason I can think of that someone who was knowledgable might
> > make
> > >> it
> > >>> would be if they wanted to try to premptively disqualify Java or
> > a
> > >>> Java-like system from the running (since regular run of the mill
> > >> Java
> > >>> is not certifiable for RT systems although there are RT Java
> > >> variants
> > >>> out there). This might be done because Java is designed from the
> > >>> ground up to not allow cracking the system. So if someone were
> > >> wanting
> > >>> to crack an election system they might not want a Java platform
> > to
> > >> be
> > >>> used. Other than that it makes the person making the argument
> > seem
> > >>> quite out of touch IMO.
> > >>>
> > >>> JamBoi
> > >>>
> > >>> JamBoi
> > >>>
> > >>> "Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
> > >>> http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > --- Ron Crane <voting@lastland.net> wrote:
> > >> At Alan's request, I am writing a paper rebutting Prof. Shamos's
> > >> recent
> > >> paper that promotes DREs. I've got most of it in hand, but I need
> > >> some
> > >> help on three issues. Two of them should be easy for someone who
> > >> knows,
> > >> and one will require some work. I need all these by Thursday if
> > >> possible. Here they are:
> > >>
> > >> 1. A few reliable cites for the proposition that flight-control
> > >> software is subject to rigorous specification, implementation,
> > >> review,
> > >> and testing procedures.
> > >>
> > >> 2. A few reliable cites for the proposition that software used for
> > >> major financial transactions (e.g. a bank's check-clearing system)
> > is
> > >>
> > >> subject to tight standards (though probably not as tight as (1)).
> > >>
> > >> 3. I need someone who is well versed in OVC's system to read
> > section
> > >> 2.4 of Shamos's paper
> > >> (http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/people/faculty/mshamos/paper.htm#_edn1 )
> > >> and
> > >> to write a technically solid rebuttal. Reward: naming as a
> > co-author.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks!
> > >>
> > >> -Ron
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> OVC discuss mailing lists
> > >> Send requests to subscribe or unsubscribe to
> > >> arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
> > >>
> > >
> > > JamBoi
> > >
> > > "Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
> > > http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
> > >
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> > >
> >
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> >
>
>
> JamBoi
>
> "Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
> http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
>
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Received on Sat Apr 30 23:17:17 2005

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