Re: I need some help

From: JamBoi <jamboi_at_yahoo_dot_com>
Date: Wed Apr 27 2005 - 10:19:35 CDT

Yes, I'd never heard of Shamos or looked at his stuff before. I
understand what you are asking for and why, but I was struck by the
question of what was his motivation to make such an obviously specious
argument. Is there a URL I can go to to learn more about this person?

JamBoi

--- Ron Crane <voting@lastland.net> wrote:

> My apologies. I shouldn't have assumed that you already were familiar
>
> with his work, or with the rough-draft rebuttal I've previously
> posted.
> Shamos downplays and/or mocks many concerns about
> electronically-based
> voting systems, especially DREs, though I know nothing about what
> motivates him to do so. In any case, I am writing a more formal
> rebuttal, and needed (still need) the requested citation for one of
> my
> assertions.
>
> -R
>
> > My point is that this Dr. Shamos looks to be either ignorant tool
> of
> > the DRE Cartel or trying to pull something (the tek info only
> serves to
> > underline and support that so it looks like you might not have
> caught
> > my point).
> >
> > JamBoi
> >
> > --- Ron Crane <voting@lastland.net> wrote:
> >> I am very familiar with realtime systems, having designed and
> >> implemented them for some years. My request does not go to the
> nature
> >>
> >> of such systems, nor to any questions about their language of
> >> implementation, nor to the silliness of the comparison between
> voting
> >>
> >> systems and flight control systems. My request is merely for a
> >> citation
> >> for the given proposition.
> >>
> >> By the way, nothing about Java prevents a vendor from writing a
> cheat
> >>
> >> ("Trojan Horse" or "trapdoor") into a system implemented using it.
> >> Java's security model is concerned with protecting items in the
> >> environment in which the Java VM runs (e.g. your files) from
> >> malicious
> >> Java apps downloaded from untrusted sources (e.g. the web). It is
> not
> >>
> >> concerned with protecting users of a Java program from code that
> >> computes its result (e.g. a tabulation of votes) differently from
> the
> >>
> >> manner in which it is advertised. The latter is much more
> important
> >> to
> >> voting system security than the former.
> >>
> >> -Ron
> >>
> >> On Apr 26, 2005, at 5:33 PM, JamBoi wrote:
> >>
> >>> One vital difference with flight control and elections is the
> >> nature of
> >>> flight control systems. Flight control system are what are
> called
> >> Real
> >>> Time (RT) systems with Real Time Operating Systems (RTOS). They
> >> must
> >>> be absolutely precise re: their timing. They are highly
> >> sophisticated
> >>> programs done frequently on a very low level of programming.
> Their
> >>> reliability is a matter of life and death. There are a few other
> >>> applications like medical, military and manufacturing that
> >> typically
> >>> are RT, but ELECTION SOFTWARE IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT ONE OF THEM.
> >>>
> >>> There is absolutely no need for nanosecond precision on a voting
> or
> >>> tabulating machine. The software could theoretically be written
> in
> >>> extremely high level languages with little problem unless the
> >>> performance becomes so slow that the user interface is
> compromised.
> >>> That is really the only contraint as far as timing goes, so there
> >> is
> >>> absolutley no need for an RT election system. As a matter of
> fact,
> >>> because of the difficulty of maintaining such software there are
> >> many
> >>> reasons you would NOT want to design an RT election system!
> >>>
> >>> This looks like an extremely ignorant argument to me. The only
> >> good
> >>> reason I can think of that someone who was knowledgable might
> make
> >> it
> >>> would be if they wanted to try to premptively disqualify Java or
> a
> >>> Java-like system from the running (since regular run of the mill
> >> Java
> >>> is not certifiable for RT systems although there are RT Java
> >> variants
> >>> out there). This might be done because Java is designed from the
> >>> ground up to not allow cracking the system. So if someone were
> >> wanting
> >>> to crack an election system they might not want a Java platform
> to
> >> be
> >>> used. Other than that it makes the person making the argument
> seem
> >>> quite out of touch IMO.
> >>>
> >>> JamBoi
> >>>
> >>> JamBoi
> >>>
> >>> "Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
> >>> http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
> >
> > --- Ron Crane <voting@lastland.net> wrote:
> >> At Alan's request, I am writing a paper rebutting Prof. Shamos's
> >> recent
> >> paper that promotes DREs. I've got most of it in hand, but I need
> >> some
> >> help on three issues. Two of them should be easy for someone who
> >> knows,
> >> and one will require some work. I need all these by Thursday if
> >> possible. Here they are:
> >>
> >> 1. A few reliable cites for the proposition that flight-control
> >> software is subject to rigorous specification, implementation,
> >> review,
> >> and testing procedures.
> >>
> >> 2. A few reliable cites for the proposition that software used for
> >> major financial transactions (e.g. a bank's check-clearing system)
> is
> >>
> >> subject to tight standards (though probably not as tight as (1)).
> >>
> >> 3. I need someone who is well versed in OVC's system to read
> section
> >> 2.4 of Shamos's paper
> >> (http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/people/faculty/mshamos/paper.htm#_edn1 )
> >> and
> >> to write a technically solid rebuttal. Reward: naming as a
> co-author.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> -Ron
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> arthur@openvotingconsortium.org
> >>
> >
> > JamBoi
> >
> > "Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
> > http://dailyJam.blogspot.com
> >
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>
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JamBoi

"Live humbly, laugh often and love unconditionally" (anon)
http://dailyJam.blogspot.com

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Received on Sat Apr 30 23:17:17 2005

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