Re: Question re ballot limitations - Automark vs. Punch-card Ballots

From: Edmund R. Kennedy <ekennedyx_at_yahoo_dot_com>
Date: Mon Apr 25 2005 - 11:38:38 CDT

Hello Joe:

There are a number of links to large ballots in the
wiki. Yes, I believe there are ballots larger than
the California recall ballot. I know that a DRE
advocate was spreading FUD about how a printed out
ballot from a DRE would have to be 6' long to hold all
the ballots of certain elections. She arranged this
by printing a ballot one column wide on a piece of
register tape. Several people performed an exercise
where they showed that her monster ballot could fit
nicely on one side of a piece of legal paper. This
sounds like a variation of the same old stuff.
Anyway, it's in the archive somewhere.

Thanks, Ed Kennedy

--- Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joehall@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/24/05, Kathy Dopp <kathy@uscountvotes.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > QUESTION:
> > Is it true that the total quantity of ballot
> issues, races, and
> > candidates that can be handled by a punch-card
> ballot is larger than
> > what can be handled on a large-sized (8.5"x17") op
> scan paper ballot
> > that AutoMark uses?
>
> So Utah [uses the Votomatic punchcard system][1]...
> however, there are
> a few different types of punch cards for that.
> Check out [Doug Jones
> great run down on punch cards][2].
>
> [1]:
>
http://www.eac.gov/docs/June%203%20Punch%20Card%20-%20Amy%20Naccarato.doc
> [2]:
>
http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/collection/i-ballot.html
>
> The uppermost punch card on Doug's page is what we
> used to vote on
> here in Alameda county before we got AccuVote-TSs.
> It has 228
> possible holes (although I'm not sure if you can set
> up a punch card
> ballot display -- the thing that flips to expose the
> next column of
> holes -- for that many elections... I don't see why
> not.
>
> So, how many can an optical scan ballot at 8.5" x
> 17" hold (both
> sides)? Well, here's a bunch of images of optical
> scan ballots:
>
> <http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mlafler/ballot.jpg>
>
<http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/dailypix/2002/Oct/28/ballot.gif>
> <http://www.ada.mi.us/images/Ballot-Front.jpg>
> <http://nw-ar.com/smokefree/ballot.gif>
> <http://kai.dyndns.org/images/ballot/ballot.jpg>
>
<http://www.martin.fl.us/GOVT/co/elect/returns/sep98/ballot.gif>
>
> If we assume that the thickest they can pack choices
> is about 3 per
> inch and that each side has a total of 3 columns
> max. This is 3 votes
> per inch * 17" * 3 columns * 2 sides = 306 votes on
> a fully-packed
> op-scan ballot. This number drops to 204 votes if
> we assume only 2
> votes per inch and 153 if we assume only one side at
> three votes per
> inch.
>
> So, I'd say that they're comparable, to first order.
> And have we ever
> seen evidence of any race with more than 150
> individual choices on it?
> Unless I'm mistaken, the California recall, at 135
> candidates, was
> the longest ballot ever (please correct me if I'm
> wrong on this).
>
> --
> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
> UC Berkeley, SIMS PhD Student
> <http://pobox.com/~joehall/>
> blog: <http://pobox.com/~joehall/nqb2/>
>
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>
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Received on Sat Apr 30 23:17:13 2005

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